Curse

lyra_song · Feb 26, 2007, 07:06 PM // 19:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador

Again and again - It's NOT an RPG. It's a massively multiplayer online game, with no built in role play of any kind at all.

Ive done pen-paper RPGs. Ive done console rpgs. Ive done PC rpgs. Ive done chat based RPGs. I've done e-mail RPGs. Ive done forum based RPGs. Ive even...*GASP* done LARP (gross...)

I feel that GW fits the console RPG template similar to Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior and definitely NOT an RPG template thats more common to PC players.

As such, i stand by my stance that it is an RPG, although perhaps shallow and not very open-ended or free.

Shmanka · Feb 26, 2007, 07:35 PM // 19:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

As such, i stand by my stance that it is an RPG, although perhaps shallow and not very open-ended or free.

I truly don't see a valid point on this thread as to how it is not an RPG.
Role Playing Game... Heck Anet calls it a Co-RPG Co-operative role playing game.. makes sense...

@ the OP: Yes I think they are, I have 12 slots and im starting to really not care anymore about half of the professions unless its pvp material. Heroes introduced the biggest "convinience" of never needing other professions for assurance.
"Hey Swift we need a monk wanna come?"
"Yea sure I'll grab my tank he has Dunkoro!"

May not be the same effect but allowing me to control the skills can give me perfect spikes, infusing, etc etc.

Loviatar · Feb 26, 2007, 07:39 PM // 19:39

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador

It's essentially, in fact a PvP game - Guild Wars, let us not lose focus here GvG is what it's all about.

that is completely wrong and here is JEFF STRAIN to tell you so.

Quote:

Evil Avatar News: Guild Wars seems to be a pretty hardcore PvP type game. How does Factions supplement the core game in terms of additional appeal? Has there been an effort made to entice people who didn't like Guild Wars? Have there been any creative strides toward doing unique PvE situations?

Quote:

JS: Well, I think Guild Wars has excellent PvP, especially in the online role-playing genre, in fact it’s the only game with well-designed well-balanced PvP; but that doesn’t mean the game is a hardcore PvPer's game. Guild Wars started life as a role-playing game, and we continue to support that very strongly. Our goal was always for the PvP aspect to be played after you’ve built up your character and played through the role-playing content

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12122

Tempy · Feb 26, 2007, 08:03 PM // 20:03

[QUOTE=Loviatar]

Quote:

that is completely wrong and here is JEFF STRAIN to tell you so.

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12122

Really....hmmmm, show me the roleplaying in it. I can't chose what my chara really looks like, I wear the same things everyone else does, I attack the same monsters...I can't chose to have a personality~read good or evil (the closest that came was being Kurz or Lux). If I "chose" to Kill them all (NF "option") there are no draw backs or lasting effects and is never mentioned again.

Now on to in town roleplay. No dialogue attempt with NPC's. ANY attempt to be "In Character" in writing is SEVERELY limited by space to type. Then of course even if it weren't it's lost among the spamming of idiocy and other enjoyables, but *stumbles in bloodied and sore, wanting nothing more than a simple conversation and a drink* is met with OMFG Shut up you noob....WTF, is that called....blah, blah, blah.

Instead of RP what we have is an entire community, and I use the word lightly, blindly following a scripted being. Oh wait, that is a created role, isn't it? Albeit with absolutely no imagination allowed. Okay, you win it's a Roleplaying game.

Edit: forgot about the quoting multiple qoutes...sorry, but I think ppl get the point.

Loviatar · Feb 26, 2007, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempy

Okay, you win it's a Roleplaying game.

hi

not a win just another correction of this is designed as a PVP game and GVG is the focus of it.

i personally like my RPGs to be like the *ELDER SCROLLS* series including that super buggy *DAGGERFALL* which i think seemed to have 2 bugs for each line of code. (still had a fun time with it)

lyra_song · Feb 26, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempy

Really....hmmmm, show me the roleplaying in it. I can't chose what my chara really looks like, I wear the same things everyone else does, I attack the same monsters...I can't chose to have a personality~read good or evil (the closest that came was being Kurz or Lux). If I "chose" to Kill them all (NF "option") there are no draw backs or lasting effects and is never mentioned again.

If you wanted to roleplay, you can roleplay, what the software allows you to do is irrelevant.

Personally, i dont find the whole good/evil to be any indication of a personality.

If anything, its just a used up cliche used by people with no real imagination or insight into the complexities of what it means to be a human. I do like the Kurzick/Luxon idea since...its very "grey".

BUt i do agree that we all look way too similar. But then again we are all either soldiers (of Ascalon), students from the same school (Shing Jea monestary) or sunspears (Istan) so an inherent "uniformity" could be explained.

Quote:

Now on to in town roleplay. No dialogue attempt with NPC's. ANY attempt to be "In Character" in writing is SEVERELY limited by space to type. Then of course even if it weren't it's lost among the spamming of idiocy and other enjoyables, but *stumbles in bloodied and sore, wanting nothing more than a simple conversation and a drink* is met with OMFG Shut up you noob....WTF, is that called....blah, blah, blah.

Again...limitations of the software should be irrelevant to how you play your role.

Quote:

Instead of RP what we have is an entire community, and I use the word lightly, blindly following a scripted being. Oh wait, that is a created role, isn't it? Albeit with absolutely no imagination allowed. Okay, you win it's a Roleplaying game.

My ranger is from Kryta, who's sister traveled to Cantha. Now news of plague has spread to Lion's Arch as refugees from Cantha come in. The only reason she's following the Ascalon goons is in hopes of finding her sister alive. She was originally conscripted into the army as a tracker and scout, which she did after running away from home after finding out her father was indeed not her real father. She thought the army was the best way to get away from it all.

Im following the script. But im making my own story.

Why dont you do the same?

Tempy · Feb 26, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

If you wanted to roleplay, you can roleplay, what the software allows you to do is irrelevant.

Personally, i dont find the whole good/evil to be any indication of a personality.

If anything, its just a used up cliche used by people with no real imagination or insight into the complexities of what it means to be a human. I do like the Kurzick/Luxon idea since...its very "grey".

BUt i do agree that we all look way too similar. But then again we are all either soldiers (of Ascalon), students from the same school (Shing Jea monestary) or sunspears (Istan) so an inherent "uniformity" could be explained.

Again...limitations of the software should be irrelevant to how you play your role.

My ranger is from Kryta, who's sister traveled to Cantha. Now news of plague has spread to Lion's Arch as refugees from Cantha come in. The only reason she's following the Ascalon goons is in hopes of finding her sister alive. She was originally conscripted into the army as a tracker and scout, which she did after running away from home after finding out her father was indeed not her real father. She thought the army was the best way to get away from it all.

Im following the script. But im making my own story.

Why dont you do the same?

You assume I don't.

Nice Story Line...but just how much do you enjoy playing with yourself??? Meaning its nice to have this story line in your head, but there is no one to actually share it with...okay or VERY VERY few. That I fear is for another topic though.

Happy Hunting

BradNess · Feb 26, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Guild Wars was not made purely to get titles, it was a good 6 months plus before they even adapted titles into the game.

I agree with the thread creator about having towns and outposts being mappable per account, but it should be for each character that has made it to LVL 20, and on an account that has at least 1000 hours total. Although it's not a huge issue for me, and I'm sure for the Dev's as well, but it would be nice to see something like this implemented besides nerf's all the time

I also agree with skill caps being per account, heck they make it so your heros have them per account, why not new characters you make?

As far as the title of this thread goes, Anet is for sure NOT deterring PPL from making many characters or else they would not have created the Offical Guild Wars store online where you can buy new character slots

Age · Feb 26, 2007, 10:47 PM // 22:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tempy

You assume I don't.

Nice Story Line...but just how much do you enjoy playing with yourself??? Meaning its nice to have this story line in your head, but there is no one to actually share it with...okay or VERY VERY few. That I fear is for another topic though.

Happy Hunting

There is always The GW Role Playing Association to play it with.What the RPG really stands for in this game is just role you play like an actor.I would like to get this backon topic and when I hear of bans of players over farming it would seem to be deterring for others out there or just slugging it out with quests or missions.

Tromador · Feb 27, 2007, 10:56 AM // 10:56

Lyra I been role playing P&P, in online games, on OpenRPG and in other media for the past 24 years of my life, but please let's not lower this into a who's the best RPer contest

. I'm willing to accept we both know what RP means and move along.

Equally I accept the existence of people who do RP, like The GW Role Playing Association. That's cool by me. I'm not the thought police who decide how you may (or may not) enjoy your gaming experience. Nobody is.

Jeff Strain may have intended the game to be an RPG, but again, where is the RP. For me there isn't any. Whatever his intentions, the reality is that this game is PvP focused. He says play through the PvE to create a PvP character. Well, ok - except now you don't have to. You can simply purchase skill unlocks and go into PvP without ever touching PvE. Original intentions may have been for the PvE game, but it's clearly *become* PvPcentric.

This debate however isn't about RP and isn't about PvP vs PvE. It's about the PvE meta game. So let's get down to brass tacks.

As I see it the OP wants to be able to make a variety of different builds, including new classes as they are released, to replay old missions and quests from previously completed campaigns.

I can't see the problem with this, if that's what they want to do. It doesn't impact upon anyone else. It doesn't hurt anyone, or cause them pain. Allowing it removes the pain and frustration from the OP.

Skill unlocks cross continents, except Elites. That's just silly. I get my tank all the way to DoA and find that I need an Elite from Tyria, one that I have already capped on another character. I really shouldn't have to do the Prophecies all over just for the skill. Let's just have unlocked elites unlocked so we can have a proper PvE meta game and enjoy pitting our build skills against the mobs unfettered.

I simply don't have time to run umpty characters through all campaigns. I've a full time job. Does that mean I must be penalised and left unable to fully enjoy the content I have purchased, same as everyone else? I don't think it should.

And should ANet implement something like this, Lyra, you aren't forced to take advantage of it. Feel free to work your characters through separately. That's your RP and I respect that. It may be that the game has unlocked areas for you, but that's OOC knowledge which I'm sure you won't exploit in your IC environment. I trust you never purchase an unlocked skill from another campaign as well.

I'm not in the business of dictating how people should play the game. If you want to slog through for RP reasons, go for it.

What I want to see is the *CHOICE*. Right now we have no *CHOICE*.

ghostkai · Feb 27, 2007, 11:08 AM // 11:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador

What I want to see is the *CHOICE*. Right now we have no *CHOICE*.

i'm not going to criticise anyone, because no one is wrong here, but at the end of the day, guild wars is what you make of it, maybe hardcore RP isn't what everyone wants, maybe it is. every game is different in it's own respects. my two cents? theres no point bitching (and that means both sides), either you like it, or you don't the matter in hand is "choice" as so well phrased by Tromador, heres your choice peeps, play it, or don't.

Loviatar · Feb 27, 2007, 04:57 PM // 16:57

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador

I simply don't have time to run umpty characters through all campaigns.

then make the time or CHOOSE which ones you play with

Quote:

I've a full time job. Does that mean I must be penalised and left unable to fully enjoy the content I have purchased, same as everyone else? I don't think it should.

you are not being penalized at all .The same content is available to you as with any other buyer.

other people have real lives as well and CHOOSE how much time they can play this game.

make a choice because everybody cant have everything.

wynoski · Feb 27, 2007, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthulhu reborn

Lately in fact I had some fun just fighting characters from other campains back to Ascalon just for the fun of it.

But you don't get any good greens and you don't get any good golds and...wait...you mean you are doing something in game that is what you want to do and find a way to challenge yourself?

I did not think that was allowed ne more?

My hat is off to you ...I have a NF ranger in yaks bend heading back to Ascoalon for that same reason...because I can.

coydeleon · Feb 27, 2007, 05:24 PM // 17:24

Remember that cheat in Doom where you get all the weapons? Firing the BFG in the first level was fun at first, but got boring fast. Even faster with god mode on.

The thing is, it's nice to have the options the OP suggested, but ultimately, it would make Guild Wars old, fast IMHO. People keep saying they don't want to do the same thing over and over again, that's fine, I understand, it makes sense.

Then you realize, you could be looking at it the wrong way. First and most advanced character I had was a Ranger, fun, flexible, a bit weak in the direct damage area, but otherwise it's a sweet prof. But then, I got to thinking, maybe I can try another toon that changes the way I play the game? What better way to do that by starting all over again, see how much better I am with say... a Ritualist? How faster I can finish this mission, how easier can I do this quest? What combination of Heroes, Hench, Attributes and skills will I use?

What am I getting at? It doesn't have to be a long dragging walk down to memory lane if you consider just how much the game will change with a different profession. Challenge yourself, set goals, or compare and contrast with your run at the campaign prior to your new toon. Not all accomplishments can be seen in your screen, sometimes, a need for self-fulfillment is all you need, or something like that.

Tromador · Feb 27, 2007, 06:06 PM // 18:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

then make the time or CHOOSE which ones you play with

I already did. See my earlier posting from a couple days ago.

That's not my point.

I would like to understand how it would hurt anyone to have unlocks cross account.

Those who want to play through in order may still do so.
Those who don't aren't forced to.
Those who wish to RP may do so.

I would very much like to see a cohesive argument from someone explaining why it will detrimentally affect their gaming experience to be allowed (not forced) to access areas previously unlocked on their other characters.

lyra_song · Feb 27, 2007, 07:12 PM // 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador

I would very much like to see a cohesive argument from someone explaining why it will detrimentally affect their gaming experience to be allowed (not forced) to access areas previously unlocked on their other characters.

While it would not affect my gameplay directly what you do, i feel that it would be a detrimental affect to the game altogether.

I really feel that if you give someone a shortcut, they'll take it.

Look at what running does. It gives you an option. Its very convenient but nowadays in prophecies, i meet very few players who actually played the game. I see players with Droks armors who don't know what ascending is, what maguuma stade is, or who the mursaat are. Its pathetic quite frankly. They see people offering running services and assume that thats what you are supposed to do. You end up with players who have no idea whats going on, no teamwork skills and just diminish overall pug quality and player skill in PvE.

You tell me "You dont have to choose it". Yes thats true. But who actually won't choose it? Who will actually play the game? What incentive would it be to actually play the game if you gain access to all the outposts/missions and the elites just via making a new character?

Yes there should be options, but this idea shouldn't be it.

Tempy · Feb 27, 2007, 08:49 PM // 20:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

While it would not affect my gameplay directly what you do, i feel that it would be a detrimental affect to the game altogether.

I really feel that if you give someone a shortcut, they'll take it.

Look at what running does. It gives you an option. Its very convenient but nowadays in prophecies, i meet very few players who actually played the game. I see players with Droks armors who don't know what ascending is, what maguuma stade is, or who the mursaat are. Its pathetic quite frankly. They see people offering running services and assume that thats what you are supposed to do. You end up with players who have no idea whats going on, no teamwork skills and just diminish overall pug quality and player skill in PvE.

You tell me "You dont have to choose it". Yes thats true. But who actually won't choose it? Who will actually play the game? What incentive would it be to actually play the game if you gain access to all the outposts/missions and the elites just via making a new character?

Yes there should be options, but this idea shouldn't be it.

Thus the reason there would be requirements...but no one wants to even read that part. Once again for the 50th time this is NOT about NEW characters...they just scream that we are lazy for not wanting to do it 10 million times, or that we are stupid for making the choice to play more than one chara.

And as for who would not take that option...well those of you of course that are so adamant about PvE being too easy already, and those that feel playing the same storyline enhances their RP.

TabascoSauce · Feb 27, 2007, 08:55 PM // 20:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tromador
I would very much like to see a cohesive argument from someone explaining why it will detrimentally affect their gaming experience to be allowed (not forced) to access areas previously unlocked on their other characters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song
While it would not affect my gameplay directly what you do, i feel that it would be a detrimental affect to the game altogether.
I really feel that if you give someone a shortcut, they'll take it.

Why dance around the point?

Let us call a spade a spade. Artificial scarcity is the actual dispute. ANet could make PvE exactly Like PvP where everyone can have everything as often as they want once they unlock it, be it items or locations, and it will not cost anyone anything because they are all virtual items. That will suck the joy of accomplishment out of the game though, but in the end it is all virtual.

Your house or apartment where you sleep (when not playing GW) will still be there, and everything will still be in your refrigerator to eat.

I agree with lyra_song that it would be a bad idea to have everyone able to go everywhere. But there can be a middle ground where we all can agree.

I posit this for that middle ground - if you have an endgame character who is ascended or weh no sue, then why fight through the weenie bad guys? Jedi Masters do not have to wade through stormtroopers to get to the bosses. They have flack to do that, because they are bosses themselves.

If you are an endgame character, then maybe you should go to the endgame. Unlock 75% of the map for already ascended characters entering the campaign, say up to the Gate of Desolation, and have done with it. If you want to go back and fiddle with the earlier missions for skill points (and I think most everyone will, to get the skill points to buy the new skills) that will be their option.

Just my 2 cents.

Thx!
TabascoSauce

milias · Feb 27, 2007, 09:05 PM // 21:05

I don't think ANet is intentionally deterring players from playing many characters. Just the way it worked out, I guess. Note also that some people do share accounts.

Tromador · Feb 27, 2007, 09:10 PM // 21:10

Absolutely. I do not advocate brand new characters having instant and immediate access to all the unlocks on the account. It needs to be somewhere in the middle.

Maybe once a character has finished a campaign, or something I dunno.

Basically, I just want to be able to unlock the Elites on my account and put them on any characters, same as I can unlock and buy skills for any of them.

I should be made to cap them once (not farm Balth faction and buy it btw).

Then I can play any character through any campaign with any skills I've already earned.

You may wish to make a rule that characters must be ascended (or equivalent) in order for this to happen. There's bound to be middle ground.

I completely agree with your point about runners. Then again I've used them a lot for this exact reason. I don't want to have to do the whole thing over again to get stuff for my new character. I've done it legit a couple of times, that was enough.

The concept of diminishing pug quality and so forth though, I do take issue with. Yes for newbie players skipping stuff - but not for experienced players who have done the hard work once already.

Again I come back to this point - There must be some goal achieved in order to enable the unlocks on any given character.

Summary:

Unlocks after achieving some appropriate goal - Good Idea.
Unlocks for free just for making a new character - Bad Idea.

Noob Pugs popping all over cluelessly - Bad Idea
Experienced players not forced to grind over and over - Good Idea.